Interview with Illustrator/Author Raissa Figueroa!

Hello!

In this episode we’re interviewing Raissa Figueroa

Raissa Figueroa is a self-taught artist of both digital and traditional media repped by Natascha Morris of Tobias Literary. She has illustrated nearly 30 books for publishing houses such as Viking Books for Young Readers, Harper Collins, Little Simon, and more. Her book series Oona not only earned out, but earned a glowing review from Kirkus and a starred review from the School Library Journal. She is a Coretta Scott King Illustrator Award winner, and her work has twice been displayed at the Society of Illustrators show in New York. She loves hiking Southern California’s trails, boba, and hanging with her cat, Phoebe.

Where to find Raissa:
Website: https://rizzyfig.com/

Order Raissa’s books here! https://rizzyfig.com/books

Socials:

https://www.tiktok.com/@raissafigueroa

https://www.instagram.com/rizzyfig/

https://rizzyfig.substack.com/

Here are some of the authors, artists, and other things we brought up during the episode. Just a disclaimer - please do not take our word as fact. The publishing industry is always changing, and often we are talking about things we are remembering from a while ago or have heard from others. While the agent deep dive is always fact checked, we do not prep for these episodes or look up other information beforehand. It’s always important to do your own research! If we realize after the fact that we have gotten anything wrong, we will do our best to correct it in the show notes.

Raissa’s recs:

Marco Bucci 10 min to better painting videos: https://tinyurl.com/4zbvfj6a

Iraville (watercolorist): https://www.instagram.com/iraville/

SVS learn: https://www.svslearn.com/

Books:

Framed Ink: https://tinyurl.com/yhje4m2x

Picture This: https://tinyurl.com/ptk9u5p3 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello, I'm Maria. And I'm Suzanne. And welcome to Publishing Pels Podcast, a podcast where two Pels talk about publishing. For nearly a decade, we have tried, failed, and sometimes succeeded at being traditionally published. Come along with us as we share everything we've learned in this oddly gate-kept, confusing, but incredibly fun and rewarding industry. And today we are so excited to be joined by Risa Figueroa. Welcome. Hi! Hi girls. Thank you for having a lot for coming on. I'm so excited to talk to you. Risa is a self-taught artist of both digital and traditional media, wrapped by Natasha Morris of Tobias Literary. She has illustrated nearly 30 books for publishing houses such as Viking Books for Young Readers, Harper Collins, Little Simon, and more. Her book series, Una, not only earned out, but earned a glowing review from Kirkis and a starred review from the School Library Journal. She is a Coreta Scott King illustrator and award winner. And her work has twice been displayed at the Society of Illustrators Show in New York. She likes hiking, Southern California's trails, boba, and hanging with her cat, Phoebe.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

That sounds about right. You did your research. That's so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Well, a lot of that I copy pasted from your website, but I'm glad it's accurate and concise. And oh my gosh, I can't believe how many awards you've won. Um and you just got, didn't you get just get like a school library journal?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Uh yeah, congratulations. Oh, thank you so much. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but um no, sorry. Yes, uh, the J School, no, isn't Junior Junior Library Guild J J L Gold Standard for Reyes Rodeo?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Congratulations. Which is that has that one already come out? I know you've got so many books either coming out this year or that have already come out this year. You've had a very prolific year. Um, would you like to jump in and maybe talk about a couple of the things that people can look forward to?

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yeah, sure. Um, so uh I believe When We Are Mermaids is the next book that comes out uh at the end of March. Um, but that one is being released in the UK, and so the US version will come out I think in July through Source Books. Um and then in either I I forget now if it's May or June, but in May or June, um Honeybird Blue um is going to come through. It's about a little girl that goes bird watching with her dad trying to fly in blue, who is like a heron. Um and she like she like has a list of colors like yellow and red and um black and brown, and so it's like blue is like her her prize that she's trying to to find with her dad. Um and yeah, that one comes out in May or June. And then um there's only two more, if I can remember what it are. Only two more books that year.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

I just want to clarify, like most author illustrators or illustrators have like one to two books coming out a year, and that's considered consistent work.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

So yes, yes, no. I mean, that was my year last year, and then this year, because the I I finished these books like I don't need like last year, or even maybe even um a couple years before that. So they're just now like all just coming out at the same time, which is why it seems like, oh, you did a lot. I'm like me, I did a lot like a couple years ago. Um so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

I know we've talked a little bit about timeline with prose books, but what's the timeline look like for most of your picture book deals, or does it vary really widely?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Um I think that for the most part it's a similar timeline. Like I get sketches and then maybe like six months later the finals are due. But because I have so many books at the same time, I kind of just tackle I stagger my deadlines. So I'm doing like usually one deadline a month. Um it's like my flow.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

And then once you turn in the finals, how long is it usually until the book is released?

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Oh, it could be anywhere from another sometimes somewhat fast, I guess for publishing, like six months to a year, I would say, is when the book comes out. Right. Um I well, I mean, they have to get it printed and all that stuff. Like they're doing the hard part of putting the book together. You just give them the files and they're like, okay, go, you go make this. Santa like me. I don't remember when that comes out, but it's around October, Christmas time. Christmas time makes sense, yeah. Yeah, I think it might be before Christmas because I'm like, why is it not coming out like during Christmas? I feel like that was a missed opportunity, but um, and I don't remember the last book. So never mind, forget my second.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Okay, well, uh links to the books or or links to the book section of your website where the pre-orders are will be in the show notes if you want to check out any of this work. Um I'm curious because you've you've not only like had you know your first couple deals and stuff, but you worked on like a bunch of picture book projects really consistently. What are some things that you think are are like surprising commonalities between like every project you've worked on that's just kind of like something about being in the picture book industry versus like stuff that's more unexpected where it's like this got thrown at me a couple times, but like it's not standard necessarily, but I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Um so I don't know if it's standard or not, but I sometimes get a manuscript with like a ton of art notes. Um I say for the most part the art notes are very spare sparse, like a couple here and there. Um, but like I laugh because I I actually talked to her um a couple weeks ago, Ruth Foreman, um, who did the book Like So and then the follow-up book, Do I Love You? Yes, I do. Like her manuscript, like I think every page had art notes. Um, because she had such like a clear vision of what she wanted for each page. So I basically just had to come up with a camera angle. Um, and I had a lot of work at the time, so I I like I really appreciated not having to like come up with a book. So you like art notes. Um, it yeah, I would say they definitely help. I like when it's not like so like rigid, like you have to follow these notes. Because for the most part, they're kind of like, well, here's what the author was kind of thinking, but kind of feel free to do your own thing still. Like you don't have to like rigidly adhere to these notes. Um so I would say that's for the most part normal. Um, Small Girl Zora and the shower of stories. Um that book also had um, I think a lot of art notes, if I remember correctly. Um, but again, I think I also had a lot of work. So I'm like, oh yeah, like less things for me to like think it works out. Um yes. So yes, I do like art.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

So would you say like an author that has a very clear vision of what they want um is is a green flag or is it more like a conditional green flag uh based on like how they handle revisions and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Uh I mean, if it was like, oh, my character Susie has to have red shoes and a matching whatever, and like it was like really kind of nitpicky, then I would be. But if it's just like overarching, you know, like girl and mom um are at the beach, like and that's it. So it's like it's not telling me exactly, you know, like it's a three-quarter shot, and they're at the beach and they're eating a sandwich, and like they're just like telling me everything that's going to see.

unknown 8:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

At that point, it'd be like, yeah, here's my hand. Like you can just have that and and draw it.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Okay, so like ballpark notes, but like nothing super specific. What like, okay, if you were gonna get the ideal picture book writer client, um, or like if someone listening is writing their picture book and they're like, wow, I would love Rice to illustrate this someday. What are some things they could do where if this author's manuscript was shown to you, it would have so many green flags, you'd be like, wow, I love this. This is wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

That's a good question. Um, because I feel like I I try to connect, like if I don't connect with the story, then I'm just not gonna take it. That's like my number one thing that I'm looking for when I read a manuscript. Um, like, are images coming to mind when I read your story? If I'm reading it and I'm thinking about like, oh wow, this is gonna be like really complicated, or like this, it's just not my vibe, um, then I will I probably pass on that. But if you have like a good interesting story, um nothing with like cars or machines or robots, preferably, um, then I yeah, I I would consider it.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Interesting. So what would you say your vibe is? Like what what kind of are there consistent like themes or or sort of like morals or or story elements that you look for that you consistently like pull towards? Or is it more about the subject matter of what you'd be painting?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Um I think it's more so the subject matter, I would say for the most part, because I have a wide range of like stories that I like I like and I'm attracted to. Um but uh I guess it's kind of like ironic, but I would love it if I could do a book with no characters in it. Like that'd be awesome. Um, and just do backgrounds, like backgrounds are uh a big thing with me right now. Um, so if somehow I could like do that, and the character would be like yay big, so I wouldn't have to render like a character across diff like the pages. That'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

I mean, your backgrounds are gorgeous. Um, I I would love, would you mind talking a little bit about your process? Because I know you work with texture a lot and you you kind of do like tradigital with mixes of of traditional textures with digital work. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Yeah. Um, so I actually just did a demo on this today earlier. Um, so it's kind of hard not to have like a visual, but um I start out a painting lately if it's something that I'm not really familiar with or comfortable with, I have some kind of a reference that I'm looking at. Um so I throw down a bunch of color and I pick random brushes and I just I just basically like get rid of the white of the page and fill it with like random colors that don't go together, um, crazy like textures and things. And then once I I normally I could stay in that stage for a while because I'm like listening to music and I'm just like throwing stuff down. Um uh then I uh sketch out like very, very loosely and of usually a really bold color, like a chartreuse. Is chartreuse pink? Now that I say chartreuse out loud, I'm like, is that is that like a hot pink? That's what I I want to say, hot pink. Um green, right? Yeah, chartreuse and green, actually. It's not at all. It's like a like a bright moss color, I think. Okay, well, I guess I could pick that too. Just some bright, like an obnoxious color that I'm gonna see underneath all the layers of like color that I have already. Um, so I do like a very rough sketch of the layout. Usually my perspective is off, but I but that point I don't care anymore. Um, and then I well that's when I import like the mixed media texture that I make um traditionally. Um honestly I haven't made one in a while. I've been making them digitally, actually. Um, and kind of using like the same three over and over because I just love the results that they give me. But I import that and then I change the blend mode, the blending mode. Don't ask me what the blending modes do. There's like overlay and saturation and multiply and all those other ones. And I kind of just scroll through until something cool happens, like uh an unexpected color um shift, because there are random colors already on the canvas. Um so when it looks when it looks cool, then I continue painting. Um and I I feed into that vibe, and I might do that like import the texture and switch between blending modes like a couple of times, depending on how it's going, or if I've lost some of the texture that I got while doing that. Um and then I yeah, I finish the painting.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Oh, magically. It's so interesting to hear artists talk about their product. It just sounds like magic to like people like me who are just like, what?

SPEAKER_01 14:13

I feel like what Rice It is, there it's like so you you run the line of like being abstract and gestural, but still like very clearly conveying what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, I've heard that like the abstract thing a lot. Um, and I find that interesting because I think my at least to me in my brain, I'm like, oh, this this makes sense. Like and people they always describe it as abstract. So I'm like, what am I doing? That's I'm abstract now. Okay, I'll I'll lean into that. Why not? No, it looks great.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Um, I am curious, like how you kind of developed your style because I know you're self-taught. Um, can you talk a little bit about like, because I know, you know, many years ago your style was probably very different, but like how you jumped into doing art specifically picture book art and how that kind of morphed into your current style? Like were there certain things where you were like, aha, I I figured this out, and like there was a certain point where that shifted?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Um yeah, I would say there's at least like two or three like large shifts in well, maybe three or four actually, um, in my work where I I actually did start traditionally in my sketchbook with like uh colored pencil or pet or just pencil, I don't know, and my tone tan sketchbook. Um and then I switched to digital for mermaid, and so that was like a style that carried me through I think my first or second book. Um, and it was it was tight, like it's just gotten looser over time as I like lose my patience and are I'm just kind of trying to draw every day, and I'm just like, I just need to finish this.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

So I I think my style is morphing from that, like just my patience and my two if you have a deadline of like five books a year that that are all like 32 plus pages, you you would be rushed to become a little bit less tight with your work.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yes, yeah, which is actually kind of a good thing because I guess um editors now are looking for work that's like textural or like doesn't look so clean and like AI because AI can like do the clean look like so well. And I feel so bad for the people that like that's that was their style. Like they worked really hard to like draw this beautiful thing, and now people look at it and they're like, Oh, that's AI. It's like no, like AI copied. It's not it's not cool. Anyway, that was like a side tangent, but um, what was the question?

SPEAKER_01 16:53

No, we're just asking about like the evolution of your art style over time, and if there are any defining moments or art techniques or things that you did that you really liked that you feel like were pivotal to that change.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah. Um, so the style that I did digitally for Mermaid, um, that carried me through my first or second book was very like line, it had a lot of line. Even my sketches um that I did for those books, like to show before that they could approve, like the editors and art directors could approve to do the final art, those were very um just clean. Just I look at it now, I'm like, wow, I did like spend a lot of time on that. I didn't I added tone um to those, and I could tell like I did not know what I was doing because things would be like dark next to light. It was just really patchy. I just knew I had to add tone in there, so I just I was trying to make it look fancy and make it seem like I knew what I was doing. Um and so I went from that to like this very soft, almost you can't even tell really what's going on because everything is soft and ethereal. Um and I realized like, oh, I I need some definition in there. So then I went the other way, and I got really loud and obnoxious with my colors to where the point that was like really gearish. Um, you're not gonna find those paintings. Like I took those dance. Um and after like I think my colored sense has like grown. Although I still do kind of like loud and obnoxious colors, but I feel like I've gotten better from like the rainbow bright kind of Lisa Frank. Like that's wrong with Lisa Frank, but Lisa Frank is so nostalgic. I know, I know. It's like I love Lisa Frank when I was a kid. Um, but it was very rainbow, and now I feel like it's at least rainbow, like an analogous rainbow. Which kind of helps.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Which I'm curious, being self-taught as your style has improved, are there any um whether that's like um artists that you looked at online or YouTubers or you know, other like things that you did to kind of train yourself to feel like you were really informed on art that you would want to recommend to any new artists listening that aren't necessarily sure where to start?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Oh my god, yes. Uh I always recommend the same like a couple people. Um Marco Bucci is probably my biggest influence. He's the one that does like the erase the white of the canvas by like putting down random colors and textures, and then he like tries to find a painting out of that sometimes, and he sketches into that. I just took it to like an extreme because I'll do that for like 40 minutes, and he'll do it for like, I don't know, five or something, five or ten. Um, so he has a series on YouTube called 10 minutes to better painting. I think there's 10 videos in there, and I will come back to them constantly because he has one on like value and edges and color harmony and all the things like he breaks down painting super in 10 minutes, like super simple, really easy to follow. Um I say that now watching those videos, but I think I had to watch them like a fair amount of times over. Um, not that it wasn't clear, but it's just like it took it takes a while for things to like click or for you to get them or for it to really like um absorb into your psyche. Um so he is someone that I I highly recommend. Very loose brush work, like his he can do very clean stuff too. He works for like Disney and all these fancy things. So he has like a clean commercial style, but then his like personal work is very like loose and um it's just gorgeous. Like, I'm in love with it. Um and then I used to watch for um traditional painting Iraville. Um she had a but did I already say that? She's she's on YouTube and she does watercolors, and they're very like it's not my style anymore. I was trying to go for that, like really clean. It's very clean, gorgeously like composed with like her shapes. Um so beautiful. Um, but I like I'm gravitating towards like chaos now. So I want like loose and messy and just like you slapped it together, but I could tell that took like a really long time to make. Like not that you didn't take a long time. Make but um just like I'm I'm gravitating towards a different uh corner now, but I still really appreciate her work and I learned a lot about um watercolor, like watching her. Um and I think the rest I've gotten from uh S VS Learn um had a bunch of videos. They still do um not as many as before, like their catalog has gotten very curated, and they have like steps that you follow now, like a path. Um and before they just had like a bunch of random, like I think Marco Bucci even had videos on there, and that's where I found out about him. Um and then books like uh framed ink is one I look at for composition. And yeah, mostly mostly composition. Um, and picture this by Molly Bang is just like if you don't understand how pictures like if you were an author, I would say like get that book and you you'd be golden. It just breaks down a picture very like she uses like cutout shapes, like this is a wolf. We're gonna make him out of triangles. And if we put white teeth, it becomes scary, and like squares are um stable, and um like horizontal is uh calm and vertical has energy, and um it just breaks down like the like the skeleton of pictures, like basic shape language and stuff. Yeah, all that stuff. Those are awesome resources.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

I need that one to start. Everyone else can go to the tutorial.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

There's something about having like a book in front of you that feels a little less overwhelming than a video, I think, because then you can decide like when you turn the page so you can go your own pace more.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

100%. Um, I highlighted that book. I've like underlined things. I like I refer to that book constantly as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

There's something very scholarly about underlining and highlighting passages. I'm like, I'm so learned.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

It's probably just from like from middle school and elementary school, and might be not elementary, but um like high school, just like writing things like we had to write papers by hand. There was no um, like we had a computer lab. Like that's how old I am. We had a computer lab. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

As a self-taught artist and and kind of going through, you know, your own illustration process and stuff. Where did you start kind of fixating on the publishing industry and specifically picture books? Like what had you starting working on a portfolio and seeking paid children's book work?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

So I kind of fell into it. Um uh I could tell the story of the guy, and hopefully, like hopefully I tell it the same way. Um, but this guy contacted me out of the blue and he was working on a picture book and he wanted me to do a sample illustration, and I I did it. I think he found me on Instagram, or I assumed he found me on Instagram, but anyway, um the next day he said, uh, can I call you? I was like, sure. I just thought he wanted to talk about the page, but he was like, Oh, I was looking at your work and I I really think you would do well in um picture books, and I'm gonna find you an agent. And I was like, Okay, because I thought agents were like for actors, so I just thought he was crazy. And I was like, Yeah, you go go find me an agent. And then like a couple weeks later, he came back with like, oh, you have a call with Natasha, like my agent now. Um, and I had the call with her, and she was like, Your illustrations look really good, but your writing needs work. And I was confused because I was like, What writing are you talking about? And it was like the guy that um was putting his writing with my illustration, I guess, like in hopes of like if I got picked up, he would get picked up too. Um and Nat Natasha like was like freaked out and was like, he's gonna steal your identity, you need to get away from him. I was like, Yeah, no, for sure. So I like cut all ties with him. Um and that's how like I even knew that this was an industry. Um and I I think now that he was like an angel of some kind that like because I I was uh telling someone else a story today, and I was like, wait, because now that I know how hard it is to like get an agent, um the fact that he got a call, like he not only got a call with uh Natasha, but he got like two other agents. Um and I talked to one of them, and we both thought like the other was not like a real person, because she's like, Yeah, the email's a little weird, and are you who you say you are? And I'm like, I I don't think you're a real like publisher or whatever, like an agency. Um and so yeah, that's how I got into pictures. So I'm like, I don't know what he did to get a call with an agent that he showed your artwork that I guess, but he had like you have to put together like a pitch thing and like query them, and so I just I just think it's like it he was an angel, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

It sounded at the beginning like he was gonna be your fairy godfather or something, and then it like he turned like but no, he was like an evil like wizard trying to steal your that's true.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

I would totally listen to like an hour-long dramatized version of this as a podcast episode. Like, what I wanted like what happened to him? Like, is he did he make it?

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Like he was trying to ride your coattails, like is he okay?

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Like I wonder what did happen to that guy because he gave me the email that he was using to like blast off to like all the agencies and stuff, but I don't I like I don't remember the login and I don't even remember because it wasn't on Gmail or anything, it was like like like AOL or some some random like site, and I was like, I don't have this, but he gave me the login and he was like, Yeah, you can see like what I've been saying because he was very like, no, no, I'm not trying to like he was trying to deny like what he would what I like accused him of doing because I'm like, why else would you like put your writing in there? Um, so I don't know what happened to his name is David. I don't know what happened to David. David, if you're listening.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

I know, David, if you're listening to the lady. What happened to you? What were you doing? And thank you for getting racing.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

But I'm very grateful because like I said, I I did not know that children's, I mean it makes sense that someone is drawing those pictures, but I just I didn't know that that was a thing like you could do um that was art related because I wanted to do concept art and that's kind of what I was like self-teaching myself for, like for concept art.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

So you jumped in without really knowing necessarily what was going to be expected of you for a picture book. So, like what with your first picture book, do you like how how did that? I mean, I I guess this isn't from the question sheet, but I was just curious, like, how did that go?

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Like, what's your experience? I got Natasha, um, and I didn't get anything. Like, um, after I researched, I'm like, well, what is an agent? And da-da-da. So I kind of knew like a little bit, and so I'm like, oh, so like you get an agent, and then all these deals come and I can quit my job, and like I was so stoked, but nothing happened for a year. Um, and then she said, Oh, one of our other clients, like, um, was an author and was writing a book and um was looking for an illustrator. She said they couldn't pay much, um, but it would be a good chance to kind of like get my feet wet with my first book. So I accepted, and they gave me a year to do this book. I probably really only worked on it, I probably shouldn't say it's been like two, two months, maybe two or three months, like total. Um and I was planning on doing this book traditionally, and I I did like all the character sketches traditionally, and they all looked like really good. But when it came time to do like the cover, like my first background, because I wanted the cover first, um, it was a disaster. It was so bad. Um, and I was freaking out, and I was like, I guess I have to paint this digitally, um, because I don't know how else I'm gonna finish this book, and I hadn't really like painted anything like I've done like paintings here and there, but never like an entire book digitally. So I was kind of freaking out about that. So um I kind of just I I figured it out. Like I taught myself to paint digitally, and if you look at that book, that book looks like completely different than all my other books ever. And I could probably never paint like that again because I was just trying to like make the book look like a book. Um, it was fun though. It's called Sophie and Little Star. I don't know if it's in print anymore. It might still be on Amazon. It's a collector's edition now. It's from Clear Fork Publishing, I think is the publisher, Clear Fork. Um it's actually, I think it's like my highest rate. Yeah, it has the most like the highest rating of all the books that I've done.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

4.5 on uh Goodreads. That's that's really good. Oh my gosh, and Marissa Meyer uh wrote a blurb for it. What? What?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

I love her. It's a really cute story. Um and okay, I'm I'm just Google imaging it. It's beautiful. I love your cover. Well, yes, it's I wish I would have saved, I wish I would have taken a picture of the watercolor that I did because it was so oh so bad. But it's it's$26 used. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Do you have a copy of it? Like, do you have a copy of all your books? Yeah. On a shelf?

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah, well, my mom does. She has a copy of all the books.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

So I'm curious when Natasha signed you, she liked your work. What did that process look like? Like when an agent takes an illustrator on as a client, do they give you like general portfolio notes? Do you discuss the direction of your portfolio subject matter or medium? Does she suggest changes to your website? Or is it just like, hey, send me your stuff and I'll send it out? And it's a lot more hands-off. Like, what is your experience been?

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Um, so I was Nat's first illustration client. Um, so she she is pretty hands-off with that. She can tell me if a piece is like working or not, but she can't tell me like what to change or how to fix it, or like, oh, your composition or your the colors, blah blah blah. She's just like, this is not working. Like, change, change something. Um, so I would say for the most part, um in the beginning, like when I signed, I didn't have a portfolio for children's books because I was just posting my um, there are like these little kids. I wonder if I have, well, it doesn't matter because this is a podcast. Um, I have like little kids. I guess I could show you um this describe.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Risa is pulling uh a postcard from her gorgeous wall of artist postcards off of her wall to show us. It's an adorable little boy and elephant.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

It's a boy and elephant. So I had like a girl and an ostrich. It was just like kids and animals. So that was like my entire that was my portfolio. I was just painting like kids and animals for my friend's like weekly paint night. Um, when I discovered watercolor. Uh so that's literally all I had. And then I think I did maybe like, I don't know, two or three other pieces digitally. Um, but for the most part, I was still in my sketchbook uh traditionally, and she made like the little postcards that she sends off to editors and whatnot. Um and she I don't know if she had the lookbook at that time where it's just like all of her clients and all the work that they've done like in one PDF.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

It sounds like you guys were like figuring it out together. I love I love when like we talk about there's this path, like we need to do this, this, and this, and that's how you get an agent, like that's how you do it. And then we talk to people, and it's like it doesn't, it doesn't always work that way. It just happens.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Yeah, there's a lot of atypical stories out there. But I think the the consistency is like everyone is like working really hard and they're trying to improve their craft and they're putting themselves out there, or there's a strange man named David putting them out there.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah, that's a typical story. So I'm like, just find your David.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Just find your David and he will get you your agent call.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Professional advice, folks. No, I'm curious. Once um once you got through, you know, like your first couple of books and you were getting consistent offers, and it was a little bit more of like a buy the book, we're hiring you as an illustrator for a children's book process. Um, what can you talk a little bit about like the process from when your agent reaches out to you, like what they reach out to you with to when you deliver finals, like what steps are in there and how does it vary from book to book for someone who maybe wants to get into children's publishing but doesn't really know what what the procedure would look like if they were to ever get a book deal?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Um, so at least for me, my agent will forward me an email and just it'll just be like thoughts or maybe not even that. Just like an email with the manuscript from the editor and her their little blurb of like, oh, we saw Race's work and we think she'd be a good fit for this project. Let us know if you know she wants to pursue it. Um, so I'll read the manuscript and decide if it's something that I feel like I can illustrate. And then I'll go back to them and say, like, yes, I'm I'm interested. And so Nat will um then tell them I'm interested and negotiate the price at that point. Like I I think it's very strange with publishing, like they don't tell you how much they're gonna pay you, like when they send you the the the manuscript. They're just kind of like, hey, which do you want to work on this project? And you kind of have to be like, yeah, and the what what they're gonna pay is is like a surprise. Um I always thought that was a little a little weird, but um so she'll negotiate.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Is Natasha pretty transparent about like what they offer versus what she talks them up to?

SPEAKER_00 37:49

She lets me know, like, oh, they offered, you know, 20 uh 20,000, and I got them up to 25 or something. Um so once that all happens, it takes I don't know sometimes it goes by really quick, sometimes it takes months for you to get the actual contract, and by then you may have already had like due dates. Like I've worked on a book where I didn't have the contract until I think maybe I had already turned in finals, even I think that's even happening. Um to where you're just like, okay, I hope I get paid. Not that they're not gonna pay, but it's always just a little nerve-wracking when you haven't signed anything and you're like working for free, basically.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Um but yeah, I don't know if this was like an interc secret or something, but I think um I think people who are familiar with the industry are surprised at like how slow and weird timelines are.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Yeah, yeah. It can, I mean, it's I forget the phrase someone said today. Um, I was like, yeah, that's exactly what it's like. Where it moves at a glacial pace, but you have to like keep up with everything. And I don't know. It's it's a weird industry, but I love it.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Okay, so after the contract, assuming they sign it on time before your deadline, then what then what then what happens?

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Um, so you get the contract signed, they give you your or actually usually they'll they'll tell you kind of when they need it by, so you can let them know like before you sign the project, like if you can even meet the deadlines. Um so you'll know your deadlines, and then it's kind of up to you. They don't really like check up on you for the most part, at least not with me. Um do you know, be like, hey, okay, the deadline's coming up, like make sure you're on time. It just kind of like on this day they expect the sketches, and on this day they expect the finals. So you have two deadlines that you have to meet. And I would highly recommend that you bend over backwards and you meet those deadlines. Do whatever you can to meet your deadline. Um, if you can't meet it, don't wait until the day before or like three days before to tell them that you can't like give them. I could try to give them like months in advance if I can, if I'm not gonna meet their deadline, even if it's by like a week or something. Um, I just feel like they really appreciate because they also have deadlines and they kind of pad your deadlines to like account for any kind of weirdness that goes on on your end. Uh, because you'll turn things in and you think like that's a hard deadline, and then they take, you know, like I don't know, like a month to like get back to you. And you're like, well, I thought this thing was due now, but they're still working on it. I don't know, like just meet your deadline.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Right. Because when you say like there's final sketch art, is that when you turn in your sketches with every revision? Or is like, oh, I have to turn in the sketches by this date, and then they may have several revisions before I'm even allowed to start on finals.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Correct. Yeah, no, yeah, I skipped over that. Um once you turn in sketches, that doesn't mean that you're done and they just accept it. They do come back. I've only had like a couple of books where they didn't say anything, and they're just like, this looks great. Um, but they at least always have like a couple things to change, and they're not ever like really big things, except for recently. I've had like a string of where I've I've had like five revisions um of sketches, like five rounds of sketches, um, just to like nail down the story basically and get like the right scene. Um so not even like oh move this over here. It's like let's redo this the entire scene. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

That must be really rough with like three or four other books on deadline that you're working on, too.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Um, it only gets funky when I'm expecting like a book to have this deadline, but then it like gets pushed and then it bleeds into like my other books, and then maybe another book over here also gets pushed, and then it just becomes like the snowball. Which is why I've decided to like give myself a month now in between deadlines to like just have the time to like turn something in, and now you have a month to play with it, do whatever you want, and so I'm not as stressed as I am. But I I'm coping, like I'm getting faster, which is which is good, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Um talking about like I the fact that they like didn't pay you until after you get turned in vinyl iron is wild. What what do your payment segments usually look like? Do they divide up the payment in like three or four chunks? And when are those usually supposed to be due? Assuming they pay you when they say they're going to.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

That's a big if. Assuming they pay you when they say they're going to, they give it to you usually in two payments. The when you sign the contract and when you turn in final art. Um, but I think after COVID, they started splitting things into threes. So it's like uh uh sign the contract, uh sketches, and then final art. I've only had one book that got split into four. Uh, then that was contract, sketches, final art, and then publication date. Um and those are the worst, because like publication dates like a year after after you finish everything. So I don't like this.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

I guess it would be some nice surprise money, but yeah, I can understand wanting that when you actually do the job.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yes. It's really hard to like budget. You have to first of all save. I put away 50% of everything that I get just for taxes. Um, and taxes are not 50%, they're like 33, or once you add state, it's like 36. Um, so there's like a little extra that I'm saving. So that's also like my savings. Like my savings and my taxes go together. Um, and that's why I have even any savings right now that I'm using as I'm like working on these books, and a couple of them got pushed. So I got half like half of the money I thought I was gonna get last year, I'm not gonna get, I didn't get, and I'm gonna get that this year.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Um, which worked out. I feel like we should interview someone in a publishing like accountant.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Like who I was I wish I knew names because I would love to interview a publishing accountant.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Who is making these payments? Who is deciding this payment structure? Like, what? That can't be easy for them either. They're probably like, okay, what?

SPEAKER_01 45:04

I was listening to an interview with the illustration department podcast the other day, and uh Giuseppe Castellano was saying that at like Penguin they had like one to three people um just to do contracts for every single book that they were doing, and like they were constantly behind, and just that's partially why everything took so long, which just seems insane to me.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Why hire another person?

SPEAKER_00 45:29

I know what a good deal. Yeah, wait, one to three people like total for all the contracts. Oh my god, no wonder it takes.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

It was just let me see if I can see if the interview episode is up. It was his interview with Karina Grande, I think. Um but it could have been the one I listened to before then, so don't quote me on that. I'm not gonna link it. I've not kicked listening to his interviews lately, so I'm not 100%, but um, it was a recent episode. Oh no. I guess I if you feel comfortable talking about it, um, do you mind talking about like the kind of advances you were typically offered when you just you know started versus when you've you know won a number of awards and been you know become relatively well known in the last couple years? That's very sad because it's going down.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Oh my gosh, what why?

SPEAKER_00 46:24

It's insane. Uh because I've done too many books that have not sold um as well as like a couple of them have done well, and so a lot of them have just been like, eh. Um, so my advances are not like I can't ask for what I was asking for even like two years ago, three years ago. So I'm sorry. Um, it's it's fine. That's why I'm trying to like get out there and do more marketing like on my own, because I also neglected that like my entire career. Um and you can't depend on the publisher, or you can't expect the publisher to like do all the marketing because they just have so they have so many books, like they can't market every single book that they have because that would just be an odd like it wouldn't matter, like it wouldn't matter if they did that. Um so you really kind of have to come up with ways to um just get your your book out there and move move something. Um so I'm trying to do more of that. Um, but my I started my the Sophie and Little Star, I got 300 for like$300. Um and then the next book that I got, which is the one We Wait for the Sun. Um that one I got 24. And that was the first time that like when she told me, I was like, 20,000? Like what? Like that's a I could I could like quit my job and I was like so excited. I was like, I can like make a living off of this. This is so cool. Um, and then the next couple of books I got uh between eight and thirteen or or thirteen and seventeen, something like that, under 20, like all of them are under 20. I went through a period where it was like between 20 and 25, and then 30 is I think as high as I go, one book I got 34, maybe even 40, but it was like a rush job. Um and now I'm back down to 25, I think was my latest. That's still good. Yeah, no, I'm not complaining. It's still good, but um my my like dream was to like get a like a 50,000 advance and only have to do like two books in the year. Like that was like my my goal. Great goal.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

And I'm sure it's partially like because some of your books did so well and they won a bunch of awards, like you you got a spike in advances. Um I'm curious what the process was for those awards. Like, is that something that your publisher submits you for? And do they tell you they're submitting you for awards if they do, or does your agent do that or you?

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yeah, no, that that award was a complete surprise.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Okay, they submit you and they don't even tell you they're they've submitted you for something.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Yeah, yeah. The We Wait for the Sun, which won the Coretta Scott King Illustrator honor in 2020, was it 2022? I'm not sure. Um in a year.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

I've got like a plaque up on your wall that you stare at every night.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Oh, actually, that's a good point. Did they send you a trophy or something? Did you get a swag?

SPEAKER_02 50:03

No, because I have my junior library guild pin right here. Oh yeah. Did you get a pin? Yes, I did get a pin.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

You get a pin. Well, junior library guild, you get a pin. I don't think they, I'm pretty sure they didn't send me anything. Now I'm like, oh shit, did they send me something? And I just like displaced it, which I'm gonna do. A certificate about no. Um I don't think I don't think they did. Um but but that book, they I just got a like a this cryptic email that was like, oh, Connie, your editor, my editor wanted to meet with me on Zoom on a Saturday at like 8 p.m. my time. So that's like midnight on like New York time. And I just thought that was really weird. And then Nat kept saying, like, make sure you don't miss that meeting, like you gotta make that meeting. And I was like, okay, like what's the big deal about this meeting? And so I hop on, and there was just like like a a panel of people that were there, and I was like, what's going on? And they're like, Oh, we would just like to tell you that you won like the Coretta Scott King Illustrator honor, and I didn't know what that was, so I was just like, Yay! That's oh my god, I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. That is amazing. Um, and they did the little spiel, and like I don't even remember what they said, honestly. My memory is shit, but um the I like looked it up afterwards and I was like, oh shit. Like a big award. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Um I guess I guess that would mean were you did that just mean like you weren't nervous um when when they like talked to you, so maybe it was better that way?

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Maybe it was because I yeah. Um, because I didn't know. I was just like, oh that's cool. Like cool, cool. That's uh I mean who doesn't want to win an award? I have a secret hope that when I turn like I don't know, 85, I've I win the Caldecott. That's like my my second. Why do you want to wait to 85? Because that's how long it's gonna take. I need to wait till everyone like dies out, or like I don't know. Like it's just gonna take, it's gonna take forever. Um but it's a it's a future goal of mine.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Um, I feel like you can do that before 85, but if that's your goal, you go for it, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:53

85 is the way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Yeah, it sounds reasonable to me at this point. I'm like, publishing is so slow.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

That's fair. She wins it now, but then she gets the award when she's 85. I love it. That'd be hilarious. Um for anybody um listening to this who admires you and wants to get into the business. Um what tips would you give them or what things would you like them to know that they may not necessarily be prepared for?

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Um, my tip seems to be just post post shit on Instagram. That is like my entire stream. Be consistent. Yes, uh, that's a better way of putting it. Be consistent and don't be afraid of putting your work out there on on Instagram. I'm gonna just shout out Instagram because I've gotten, I mean, that's how David found me. Um I've gotten I did Mermaid and I got like the Una series. I was drawing like dads for a while because I realized I like I don't really draw adults and I was having a hard time, especially like men. So I was just drawing a bunch of like dads and kids, and I got a book, like my first author illustrated book out of that. Um so yeah, just post post your work online because you never know who's watching, you never know um, yeah, who's keeping an an eye on you and watching you grow or like sees potential. Um and I know it's super intimidating to like go on. I mean, I still go on Instagram and I just look at all the like crazy amazing art, especially when they're like, Oh, I'm 20 years old. So you can do it, keep drawing, keep at it. Yes, 100% and keep at it and don't mess around with taxes. I will say that to you.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Yeah, I feel that, man. I'm I'm trying to pay taxes this year as a freelancer.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Yes, it's uh you will owe taxes and they they don't they don't fuck around. So just make sure you have money set aside for that and budget budget accordingly because you will not really know when you're gonna get paid. So you kind of have to have a plan, otherwise you will you will sink. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

Well, thank you so much, Risa, um, for being here. I I think that's everything, unless do you want to jump in with anything, Suzanne?

SPEAKER_02 55:30

No, I think that was a great way to end it, I think. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Um good luck to every other aspiring illustrator out there. Uh, you can follow Risa um via all of the links we are going to be posting on our show notes, on TikTok, on Instagram, on Substack, where she also talks about some of her writing. And we will see you for the next one.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

Bye. Mike, do we say bye?

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

Yeah, you can say bye.